Not Allowing Goblin DeathKnights

[۞ KAT ۞ AKA Red Viper]

i posted this in the half-breed section but i thought i'd toss it up here as well, just so there wasn't any SHOCKGASPWTFOMGs later on.

Both Worgen and Goblin Deathknights are NOT supported lore wise in game and have been just 'tossed' in there to make the masses happy and classes even.

Sooooo, as a heavy rp guild we will not be allowing in any Goblin Deathknights.

Sorry if this causes any issues for anyone, but blame blizzard for making them in the first place.

[Intresting]

Worgen Death Knights are supported by lore. It's explained int he starting quests. You are a worgen who was once a slave of Agrul. You escaped his clutches only to be slain and fall in to the hands of Arthas during the scourge invasion of stormwind.

Here is the conversation that explains it:

Come to finish the job, have you?
You'll look me in the eyes when...
<Name>?
<Name>, I'd recognize that face anywhere... What... What have they done to you, <name>?
You don't remember me? We were both servants of Arugal back in Silverpine Forest. We put up with his merciless torture for ages. It was you who saved me on that fateful night when we escaped Shadowfang Keep.
Without you I would have died. YOU! The most noble worgen I ever knew.
What have they done to you, <name>? How could this have happened?
Remember the worgen you once were, <brother/sister>! You were our savior! Fight this!
Listen to me, <name>. You must fight against the Lich King's control. He is a monster that wants to see this world - our world - in ruin. Don't let him use you to accomplish his goals. You were once a hero and you can be again. Fight, damn you! Fight his control!
Knight Commander Plaguefist yells: What's going on in there? What's taking so long, <name>?
There... There's no more time for me. I'm done for. Finish me off, <name>. Do it or they'll kill us both. <Name>... Remember Gilneas, our beloved home. This world is worth saving.
Do it, <name>! Put me out of my misery!

The goblin explanation is a bit more simple and relies ont he fact you can't walk 20 feet in azeroth without tripping over a goblin who's trying to sell you his mothers spleen.

The conversation is as follows:

C... can't we work this out somehow?
Alright, j... just let me... let me st... stand up.
<Name>?
<Name>, I'd recognize that face anywhere... What... What have they done to you, <name>?
You don't remember me, <name>? I lost count of the number of jobs you and I ran back in the day on Kezan. Then I picked up a real bad Kaja'Cola habit and you saved me! It was you who took me to Kalimdor to join the Steamwheedle Cartel. You were the only good goblin I knew. That's how I ended up in the Argent Dawn, because I knew it's what you woulda done. How could this have happened to you?
Remember the goblin you once were, <brother/sister>! You were my best friend! Fight this!
Listen to me, <name>. You must fight against the Lich King's control. He is a monster who wants to see this world - our world - in ruin. Don't let him use you to accomplish his goals. You were once a hero and can be again. Fight, damn you! Fight his control!
Knight Commander Plaguefist yells: What's going on in there? What's taking so long, <name>?
There... There's no more time for me. I'm done for. Finish me off, <name>. Do it or they'll kill us both. <name>... Remember Kezan, our beloved home. This world is worth saving.
Do it, <name>! Put me out of my misery!

The story's do seem a little taced on to be honest. They are however there and can be worked into a convincing rp by a masterful writer.

Each race has a speech like that during the DK starting area. It was put in there because goblins and worgen HAVE to do that quest. Just because it was put in, doesn't mean that it jives with the pre-established lore. I apologize if that's not what you wanted to hear, but that's just what Blizzard did to keep quest numbers consistent. I feel that goblin and worgen DKs are bending the lore too much and therefore would not be suitable RP characters.

[Intresting]

It does in fact jive with pre established lore. Goblins have been mercenaries since the begening of azeroths history pretty much. And because of Agrul arthas had his own personal army of worgen to hand pick from for death knights. It makes perfect sense that each of these races could be death knights. Here's a link from joystik.com if this dosn't convince you then nothing will, because I can't think of anything that explains it more clearly or in greater detail.

wow.joystiq.com/2010/11/07/know-your-lore-the-origin-of-goblin-and-worgen-death-knights/

[Intresting]

On looking at my last post it seems a bit ruder than I intended. I'm somewhat overzealious ocasionaly. While I would like to be able to rp my goblin DK on the forums here, which is why I contested the post at all I do have other characters I can use.

I understand completely. I get passionate about my characters as well. I have suggested that we review the article you've given us so that we can debate and come to a decision. I am sure an answer will be posted soon. Please understand that, because our guild is so HEAVILY immersed in RP, we require our characters to 'make sense'. Obviously, because of this thread, we did not think that goblin/worgen DKs made sense. But, as your article said, time-lines are tricky.

Again, I have suggested that we review our decision, and someone will update this soon. Thank you!

[۞ KAT ۞ AKA Red Viper]

hello poster, i'd like to let you know your post has been read, and i've sent the link to it to our 'head DK' and second in command of the guild to address for you as well as having re-opened the goblin DK discussion in our member area. please be paitent as it is the holiday season and peoples ability to post may be limited at this time.

[Drevik]

I'm the one that origionaly posted under the name "Intresting" Drevik is my oldest horde character. I understand things will be slow in the holiday season for most. Im glad the topic is under debate because I really enjoy my goblin DK and would like to RP him somewhere people don't use leet speak, and switch between IC and ooc at random.


So thanks for the heads up ^^

[Xrailax]

Okies, I got the link and I'll shuffle through it, just bare with me. Holiday season and all. I'll lay down my reasoning for why we came up with the no gobo-worgen dk rule when we found out about them.

Originally, this was posted on the WoW Beta forums, this came from a Blue poster:

Goblin and Worgen death knights are not supported by the lore, however, we had to put them in the game for balancing issues.

Then they made some sort of loop holes in the time line that allows gobo's and worgen to exist. Now the biggest issue I have is the way they did it to make it fit. They screwed up the entire time line with it.

I'll make a little goblin, go through the starting quest, then do the goblin death knight quest and see if theres any major glaring loop holes in the lore.

An example of a glaring loop hole is Worgen Deathknights. In the worgen starting story it is explained that the worgen in Argul's service are not the same worgen behind the greymane wall. That Argul's worgen are feral and little more then beasts. As such, by saying that you are an Argul Worgen in the DK story, you're shooting a huge hole into your Worgen starting story. The lore doesn't match.

I'm heading out on holiday here in a couple of days so I won't be wow able for a number of days, but I will be able to post so again, just bare with me here.

[۞ KAT ۞ AKA Red Viper]

wanted to let you know, Drevik, i've bumped this topic again and am going to make my own ruling on it very soon if X isnt able to get a post up himself in the next day or two.

[Xrailax]

Yeah, sorry about that. Alright, I've thought about it for a few days now, mulled it over in my head and talked to Kat about it as well.

My initial reaction to goblin death knights was based on the fact that Blizzard said that lore wise, there are none. Then they did this time loop crap to make it all fit made me want to gag.

However, after noticing that many of the flight paths in Azeroth are controlled by gobo's, it's perfectly viable that there were and are goblin death knights. The explination of how they joined bilgewater could be as simple as the other cartels wont deal with them as members, and only bilgewater will.

They are not worgen death knights (which I DO still have a major problem with) so I'm inclined to give the nod on them.

However, somethings one should know about death knights and the cheshire cats. It's not the easiest thing in the world to be a death knight. I've got a post about the history and lore of the death knights that I suggest everyone read before they decide to make one. Death knights who want to join the cats have one thing that they have to do that no other race (yes, death knights are a race in my humble oppinion) has to do. They have to go in front of Xrith and convince him that their worth the dirt they crawled out of.

[۞ KAT ۞ AKA Red Viper]

Post X is talking about is HERE. It's not easy to rp a 'proper' DK. A true challenge to any rper.